#11 Vincent Latteri: Making profit with a purpose

Listen as Vincent Latteri, founder of Hito Pak and Pak Hope, shares how a life-changing experience abroad sparked his mission to serve the unhoused community. He talks about lessons learned from running multiple businesses, staying proactive when challenges come fast, and why he believes people — not profits — are a small business’s greatest asset.

Nav Technologies, Inc. (“Nav”) makes no assurances or representations regarding the accuracy or sufficiency of the information included in this podcast. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and is not legal or financial advice. If you have questions, consult a trusted professional to help you make specific decisions about your business. The views, opinions, and statements expressed by the host and guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of Nav.

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Chapters

• 0:00 People Matter More Than Profits: Vincent’s Belief
• 1:45 What Is Hito Pak? Profit With a Purpose Model
• 5:53 Building Brand Partnerships That Align With Your Mission
• 10:59 The Life-Changing Moment That Sparked Hito Pak
• 17:45 Lessons From Failed Businesses and Early Ventures
• 19:03 Tips on Delegation And Growing a Team
• 24:07 Navigating Inventory, Manufacturing, and Pricing
• 28:27 Being Proactive in Managing Multiple Businesses

Transcript

Vincent (00:00)

People matter more than profits at the end of the day. Oftentimes you'll hear people say that time is your most valuable asset. I'm not so sure that that's the case. 

I think people are the most valuable asset. Your community, your relationships, your friends. Because when you're on your deathbed, you never say, I wish I had another 15 minutes to live. You say, I wish I had more time with somebody. Right? I wish I could have spent more time with my wife, or I wish I could have spent more time with my children, or whatever. Because this, this is what matters. People matter.

Tiffany (00:36)

Welcome to Main Street Makers, a bi-weekly podcast that features real, local small business owners who have transformed their passions into profitable businesses. Learn from fellow small business owners on how they overcome challenges, find opportunities, and create thriving operations that make our neighborhoods more vibrant, connected places to live.

I'm Tiffany and this podcast is brought to you by Nav, the business credit platform that believes every small business owner deserves the chance to succeed. Now let's get to this week's show.

Tiffany (01:06)

Hi, welcome to Main Street Makers. We're sitting here with Vincent Latteri. He kindly offered to chat with us today about his very inspiring business. So welcome.

Vincent (01:20)

Great, really glad to be here, honored.

Tiffany (01:22)

Yeah, can you tell us about your business? It's called Hito Pak. It's a really interesting business model. Can you tell us a little bit about it?

Vincent (01:34)

Yeah, I'd love to. So, Hito Pak is a one-for-one profit with a purpose business. Very similar to Sackcloth and Ashes, very similar to Bombas, where you buy something and within that price point, we're able to give something to the community. Specifically, for us, it's the homeless or the unhoused community, ⁓ where

Primarily we've focused in the Southern California area thus far, including San Diego, Anaheim, some places in Orange County, in Temecula, and in Oceanside in Carlsbad. And our company is based around this idea of people matter. And we think that there should be no reason why businesses can't really push this reality that people matter more than profits at the end of the day.

And so what we do is we sell backpacks. They're intentionally designed backpacks. I designed three backpacks in total, two to be sold and one to give. So whenever we sell what we call the Midtown or the Explorer pack, we give a Hito pack. And then what we do with that Hito pack, which is the best part in my opinion, is we fill it with a poncho, with a blanket, with socks. From Bombas, that blankets from Sackcloth and Ashes, which is another one-for-one company.

We fill it with deodorant and chapstick and soap from a company called Primally Pure, which is like all natural skincare products. Amazing company. And then we've recently been in talks with a company called Ascolour, which is a company for t-shirts and sweatshirts and hoodies, but they make really good quality stuff. And so we add that into the bag as well.

The bag that we give is intentionally designed for the unhoused. So what I mean by that is it's 600 denier weatherproof fabric. We've included a poncho on the top. It's got a place where you can zip up a blanket. It's got a built-in reflector and a removable reflector. And we use that backpack as a vehicle to help communicate identity.

and dignity. Like that's the goal for us. I think practical items are really helpful. However, if we can help them realize that their identity is not wrapped up in their living circumstances, but that they're human beings and they matter because they're people, there's a sort of a switch that gets flicked and turned on and they can start to realize that, yeah, I am a human being and it's okay. Like I'm down and out right now, but maybe I can see a path to get out.

And so, yeah, that's the business sort of in a nutshell. It's Profit with a Purpose, one for one, really excited about it. And then in addition to that, that's sort of an offshoot is the non-profit side, which is called Pak Hope. And essentially the two sort of work together to try to put out as many bags that we possibly can.

Tiffany (04:30)

That is so inspiring. I have so many questions, how did you decide what to put in the bags?

Vincent (04:38)

Great. So we did some research. I know some other nonprofits that have some pretty large inroads into the homeless community. And so a lot of what influenced us to put the specific items that we currently have in the bags were from questions to those groups. Hey, what do they need? Where are we at? 

And there's some things that we would love to add in addition to that, just not there yet, like including phone chargers or batteries, solar powered, like portable solar phone chargers, kind of this kind of thing. But essentially, we talked to a bunch of people and said, what do you see? Because I can go and I can grab someone on the streets and say, hey, tell me your story, and how best can I help you with practical items? And that'll be one user case. But when I go into these groups that already have inroads to the community, like Humanity Showers and Oceanside, great guy Jordan out there.

He has this stall with like five showers and it's like a trailer and so he parks it in a parking lot and then everybody, every Wednesday comes in and they go into this parking lot and they can have showers and then they get food and like you create relationship, you create community and for a moment those that are living life on the streets can actually like put their hair down and they don't have to look over their back because there's so much that takes place when you're living on the streets. 

Apart from the realities of not having what you need, the dangers of, there's a guy that's right next to me that's ready to stab me. It's a real thing. So there's a lot of fear, a lot of anxiety. It's a very difficult situation. And so for a moment, they get to let their hair down. They're in a safe space. And he was one in particular that I asked, tell me what else should we put in here? And so that's sort of where we got what we currently have in the bags.

Tiffany (06:29)

Do you do that in partnership with companies like Bomba's or is it more like you're supplying those?

Vincent (06:35)

Yeah, currently we have partnerships. We don't have, just to be perfectly frank, the capital to be able to fill the bags as well as provide the bag. Built into our price point of what we sell to give is really the price of the other bag landed here in the States. 

Part of the reason why we got the nonprofit was so other companies could donate and that could be a way for them to mitigate their tax liability. Like, hey, I can donate this product to you. I know where it's going. I know you personally. And now we can start sorting through how we're going to help our community and provide these practical items.

Tiffany (07:12)

So that makes a lot of sense. Can you talk more a little bit about how the nonprofit... and are you an LLC?

Vincent (07:19)

So the Profit with a Purpose business is an LLC and then we have a completely different entity that is the nonprofit 501(c)(3). So, that's the Pak Hope. And essentially the way that they work together is, Hito Pak, the profit with a purpose business, donates the backpack to Pak Hope, which then goes and actually performs what we do, which is really the whole point. The goal for me is, for instance, in a perfect world,

If I could get a donor, a benevolent giver, someone who's like, look, I'm really into what you guys are doing, I wanna give X amount of dollars. I will put all of my focus on just that portion because that's gonna mean I can put all my effort, my time, my energy into actually bringing those bags to the unhoused and helping them see that their identity, again, is not wrapped up in their living circumstances to help bring dignity.

And that's where real change can start. Here's the truth of the matter, you guys. A backpack is not going to solve the homeless crisis. It's not. Government is not gonna solve the homeless crisis. It's communities in cities that care enough about people to go and make a difference. When a group of people...

start to do that in a small scale and it can grow, you're gonna see change. Best case scenario, there will still be some who choose to live on the streets. I have found that I'll be giving a bag to someone and listening to their story. And the truth is, they don't wanna get off the streets. That's now their home. That's the only thing they can see. 

Now, does that mean we should try to grab them and… try to retrain them and teach them? No, you need to be a productive member of society. I don't know that that's the case But I do think at least that I've seen in my experience a huge percentage Doesn't know how to get off the streets and Everything's going against them You know like for instance when you're young and you're trying to get a credit card and you can't get a credit card because you don't have any credit

And so you're like, well, what do I do? It's like a catch-22. Like, I don't understand. It's very similar. I can't get the help I need to get off the streets, and I can't get off the streets because I can't get the help I need. So it's little things, little kindnesses. I'm a huge proponent of providing things that are practical, meals, toothbrushes, these kinds of things.

I'm a huge fan of saying, tell me your story and are you hungry?

Tiffany (09:49)

That is so insightful. Was there something that sparked you to start this? What is the origin story?

Vincent (09:59)

Yeah, great, great question. So this goes back actually like 20 something years ago. I took a trip with my now wife to South Africa. And when we were in South Africa, there's a lot of poverty in South Africa. They have townships which are like, basically like homeless cities, encampments, but think like more than tents, but not a home.

You immediately get this sense of like, gratefulness for how you grew up, like in a suburb with like clothes on your back, if that was your story, right? Food in your mouth, if that was your story. And you realize the struggle for survival is real, man, it's real. And we were in a place called Bloemfontein in South Africa.

Their grocery stores aren't the same as our grocery stores. Like if a South African came to California and walked into a Vons or whatever, they'd be like, oh my gosh. Their grocery stores are much smaller, less to choose from. Think of like a convenience store sort of, that's more like what it is. And so we went to this convenience store, when we walked out, there was a gentleman who was completely blind. And he was in this sort of curb kind of situation and he had one of those Casio keyboards, you know the little ones?

A really small little battery operated Casio keyboard and this dude's playing this thing and he's going for it, right? And he's got a cup there and this is the only way that he can try to make enough money to fill his stomach. He's blind, he cannot see, he plays this Casio keyboard and there was something about that moment that broke me, you guys. I mean I… cried like a baby on the shoulder of my now wife. But it just broke me.

There was a reality that like man this dude matters. He didn't have a choice whether he was blind or not. This is his life and yeah, something just sort of broke in me. 

And I've always liked backpacks you know, like some people are like really into shoes They have to have the next Jordans or whatever shoes are cool, too But I've always liked backpacks and so I wanted to make a company — something that I really like that would matter in someone's life. And so that's where HitoPak came from. 

Hito in Japanese means people. So it's a pack for people because people matter. 

At the end of the day, man, when you're on your deathbed, oftentimes you'll hear people say that time is your most valuable asset. I used to think that. I'm not so sure that that's the case. I think people are the most valuable asset. Your community, your relationships, your friends. Because when you're on your deathbed, you never say, I wish I had another 15 minutes to live. You say, I wish I had more time with somebody. Right? I wish I could have spent more time with my wife, or I wish I could have spent more time with my children, or whatever. It's always time with somebody. Because this, this is what matters. People matter. So that's sort of the origin story of Hito Pak.

Tiffany (13:06)

That's amazing. Yeah, we're over here like tearing up. How long did it take — you said that was 20 years ago. So how long did it take for it to actually become a thing?

Vincent (13:17)

Yeah, so I was, I got married when I was 21 and I was in the corporate world for about seven-ish years, making great money, a really cool kind of situation when I was doing, but always had this, most entrepreneurs have this need and desire to create.

Not all entrepreneurs are good businessmen and not all businessmen are entrepreneurs, right? So there is a gap that you have to sort of cross. And if you're really good at both, man, you're doing great. But it's a hard sort of gap that you have to cross over to figure out, like, if I bring a product to market, how is this actually going to work and sustain itself? 

And so I had made a clothing company that didn't work called Clever Clothes, terrible thing. I didn't have enough capital to do anything. It was like, you're super young. Then I went to the corporate world, did that for a while. And then I sort of helped my dad's business. I moved from where I was in Orange County to the Temecula Valley and was trying to grow my dad's business that was established in the community for some time. And we did a whole bunch of different things, but it gave me some freedom while doing that to sort of explore other options. 

And I finally had enough capital and enough time to try to give this a go. So I actually started this whole process during COVID, which made it, I don't know, gosh, infinitely more difficult because I had to get products as prototypes, but all of the warehouses, all of the manufacturing facilities are closed down. So it was quite a process, it took maybe 18 months longer than it had to. But from design to actual production and then the bags actually landing here probably was like three and a half years. And that was started right in like 2019, maybe late 18, something like that. 

When I started designing the bag, part of that story that I was alluding to was while I was sort of helping my dad's business, I developed an app. That we thought was really going to take off and we were going to have this great exit and this whole thing and great idea but didn't come to fruition with regards to the exit. Just spent a lot of money on an app and then you just have a loss. Oh well. 

And then we bought this retail wholesale space which we still have here and now I do some real estate on the side as well. But that whole process was allowing me to get to a point where I could be creative, where I could sort of stretch that entrepreneurial muscle and really dive into like what do I want to do here? What does it look like? And so Hito Pak was was born from that roughly like you know five sixish years ago give or take.

Tiffany (16:03)

Okay, that's great. You said that your first clothing company was… you kind of acted like it was a mistake, but I'm assuming you learned a lot just from doing that.

Vincent (16:11)

Totally, I think one of the biggest learning lessons is the capital lesson, right? Most businesses have capital issues. Acquiring capital so that you can utilize those funds to do whatever you're gonna do with regards to, like if you're bringing a product to market — that you're not making in your house as a small, small business. There's a minimum order quantity. So you have to order X amount to get this specific price point, right? And the minimum order, the barrier of entry for that clothing company was way too large for a very young entrepreneur who had no idea what he was doing, trying to get his feet wet and figure out things. But it was a fun adventure for a very short time. And I sort of jumped out and I was like, I can't do that, that's not for me.

But I think the app really helped me when we were developing the app, which was also quite a process. We launched that in January of 17 and closed it down, I think, middle of last year. And so I think that process, the app was probably where I learned maybe the most how to market. The app was unique in what it was.

And so it was very difficult to try to figure out what's the best way to market this. And then how do you acquire funds to market? And then once you market it, how do you execute on not just the marketing, but delivering your service or product? Most entrepreneurs will tell you they wear a lot of hats. They have to, because you can't afford to pay for someone else to wear the hat, which they'll probably do a way better job than you, but you just can't afford them.

I read a great book a while ago called Who Not How. I don't know if you've ever read that fantastic book. I don't remember the author, but if you get a chance, it's Who Not How. We're in such a “how” society. Everything's YouTube, how do I do this, how do I do that? But I think it's less about how and more about who. You can do something, for sure, you can do it yourself. But sometimes you shouldn't do it yourself. You should let someone else do it because they're gonna do it better. And it's gonna allow you the time that you need to do what you do best. 

Tiffany (18:17)

Yeah, absolutely. Delegation is a big challenge for all of the small business owners that we've talked to.

Vincent (18:24)

100%.

It's one of the biggest challenges So I know a lot of businessmen have developed these fantastic businesses and highly successful, monetarily speaking. And once you get to a specific point, then the bigger issue is managing your existing employees. Keeping them not just happy, but motivated and excited and still buying into the vision that you first laid out for them when they were hired. Those are difficult things. So now it's like you work less on the things that you were working on because now you have the who's, but now you gotta keep the who's happy. So that sounds like a Dr. Seuss book.

Tiffany (19:05)

Yeah, it does — the Whos of Whoville. So you have employees currently?

Vincent (19:10)

Yes. In my retail space, In Hito Pak, no. It's just me and I do have a partner. And then we have volunteers on the Pak Hope side. So we have about six volunteers that help from time to time depending upon their schedule.

Tiffany (19:23)

How do you keep them motivated?

Vincent (19:25)

Gosh, man, if there was a cheat code for that and somebody knows it, please contact me. The problem with keeping your employees motivated is when they don't own it, they're not gonna stay motivated. If there's not incentive that is increasing, they're not gonna stay motivated. 

So them just getting the benefit of doing a job well done and taking care of a customer, that feeling dissipates pretty quickly over time. I get it, that makes sense. Like, hey, you did a fantastic job with that specific customer, kudos, well done, look, you got a five star review, fantastic. But after about the third, fourth, fifth one of those, you're like, well, if I'm doing so good, then I should be compensated. Well, yes, that is true. However, I don't have the funds to compensate you more than I do right now until we can continue to grow. 

And so unless they're from the mindset of partnering, then it's going to be very hard to keep them motivated. But on the flip side of that, as an employee, what's the guarantee that I am going to be able to partner with you and be compensated? Because oftentimes, we hear more of the stories of employees getting burned than the reverse. And that's unfortunate, because the dollar, it's such a stranglehold. 

The dollar, it's important. I get it. We need it in order to function as a community. But again, people matter more, don't they? On your deathbed, you're not saying I wish I had another million dollars. You're saying I wish I could spend more time with my mom. 

So I think if there was a shift in — and this is like maybe pie in the sky stuff, man, but I think culturally, we've probably always been at a point like this maybe for the last 50 plus years, where that dollar's so important that we've sacrificed people for it. And I think if we could get to a place culturally where like people matter more than the bottom dollar, like you see some communities thrive with local businesses, like local businesses would bring life.

Because now they're partnering together and we're making inroads and differences. That's why I think like, man, maybe this is naive, there's no reason in my mind why many businesses couldn't have some part of their business that would help the community. And that doesn't mean just constant handouts. It means like, let's do real change. Let's focus on what matters.

Tiffany (21:59)

Yeah, I love that. I would say most small business owners that we've talked to at least go into it with the hope of helping people. That's really small business owners' goals, for the most part. But yeah, I see what you're saying. So switching gears a little bit, do you have any advice on keeping inventory?

Vincent (22:19)

Sure, if you don't have some type of system, you're hosed, man. you have to have some type of digital system. I use software, I use my point of sale system has built-in inventory software. And so that's what I use. And then typically twice a year, I'll do an inventory count and see where we're at. Typically has been pretty helpful, pretty spot on with regards to our numbers.

So yeah, I think you have to have some type of software to help you. Otherwise you're spending way too much time counting.

Tiffany (22:48)

Yeah, definitely. Then as far as manufacturing goes, was it a challenge to find the right manufacturer?

Vincent (22:57)

Yeah, it really was. So this was years ago when this all started, but it's interesting to see our current like global state with regards to tariffs and China and all the stuff, right? Because the bags that I sell are 1000 den eir fabric, size 10 YKK zippers. They're like last a lifetime bags. They're super heavy duty, really nice. I took those to a local manufacturer here in Orange County. And he told me that he couldn't buy the material he needed for the price I'm getting the entire bag for, including the labor. 

So it was a challenge, but I did find a gentleman, an English guy, whose business is helping these kinds of ideas start to lift off. And so he helped me find a manufacturer. Obviously he takes his cut right off the top. He helped us find a manufacturer in China at the time who made all of our bags. He since has moved to, I believe it's Vietnam. And when we do our next round, we'll be looking at a manufacturer there.

It's a real tough thing because my price point has to be at a place where people are willing to spend it, but also include the price of another bag. You're buying two bags. So it's like skin and bones on our side. The profit margins are very small, which from an entrepreneurial standpoint is not like the smartest thing. So you typically want a decent margin spread. Otherwise you're not going to grow as a business, right? My goal is to give out as many bags as possible.

So I'm trying to toe the line between having a decent margin, but not a big enough margin that it's going to cause people to not buy our bags. I would much rather they buy the bag so I can give a bag I'm not gonna be super rich from doing heat pack. That's just not gonna happen. But if I can give out a ton of bags, then it's worth it to me. So I had to count that cost.

And for me, that makes more sense and that's what I want to do. And so that's what we did. The manufacturing was very difficult, but we did finally get things sorted with some help. Again, who, not how.

Tiffany (25:13)

Yeah, definitely. So how did you come up with the original price? Because I think a lot of business owners struggle with pricing.

Vincent (25:21)

Yeah, so whatever my goods were landed, including shipping and tariffs and whatnot, an existing market space. A bag that was basically similar to my bag, what were their price points at? And what I tried to do is I tried to get it just slightly under them from a competition standpoint, but still be able to obviously encompass what I want to do, which is buy one, give one. 

And I found that that price point for me is right around between $90 and $110 for the bag. But some of the similar bags sell for $160. there may be some listening and be like, dude, you need to sell that thing for $160, get more margins so that you can have more capital so that you can go get more bags. And I think there's an argument to be said for that. However, in the stage that we're at, the goal right now is to try to move as many bags.

Which we have been moving on, which is great. But the more awareness that we get, once people find out what we do, they're pretty excited about it, which excites me, right? It's really exciting to see one of my backpacks in the wild. Super fun, like you walk into a store and you're like, hey, it's one of my bags, oh my gosh. Which, I mean, it's silly, but it's fun. So the more awareness we can bring to what we're doing, I think that we can get people to buy into this reality. 

Hey, you know the price point? It's not too far out there. It's just enough. Let's get these guys going. So I don't know. I think typically a 30% to 33% margin would be a great space to be in. Some are much higher. A lot of that has to do with what you're bringing to market. Like if it's a commodity and there's high competition, then you might have lower margins, but you're gonna sell more because it's a commodity.

But if it's something super unique and you're the only one with it, I think you can charge whatever the heck you want to charge, right? It's whatever the market will bear at the end of the day.

Tiffany (27:10)

Yeah, that's very helpful. This business is only one of three you said you had?

Vincent (27:18)

Yeah, I have three businesses and I have the nonprofit and we talked about those two. I have a small retail wholesale space in the Temecula Valley, which we've already sort of touched on this a little bit, but it's actually called Do It Yourself Appliance Parts. And so it's for the do it yourself-er. And we help them fix their household appliances, washer, dryer, dishwasher, microwave, oven, refrigerator, HVAC, and we provide parts for that. We provide parts for like apartment complexes, this kind of thing. 

And then I have a partner with a couple of other folks for a small real estate investment company where we do fix and flips, primarily in Arizona, California markets, which are really unique right now. All of the real estate markets, very unique. I have all sorts of thoughts on that. Nobody knows what's gonna happen, but it seems like something needs to happen. It doesn't matter. Fix and flips, acquire and holds, wholesale, innovations, those types of things.

Tiffany (28:14)

How do you manage all of those?

Vincent (28:16)

Gosh, so it's… I mean it's early morning and late nights, right? This is something I've been on about a little bit, you know… when you're always backpedaling, you can sometimes make poor decisions. So if you're always playing defense, right, you're just sort of like putting out the fires. I found that I'm trying to solve this problem quickly so that the pain goes away.

But if I can put myself in an offensive mindset and start pushing forward, I found that the fires aren't as hot and it seems like it's easier not just to put them out quickly, but to put them out the right way. So I think that being more proactive as opposed to reactive, anticipating as much as you can, the reality is that every day is a new day and you don't know what's gonna happen. So there is a sense that you still have to be reactive to a degree.

However, if you can get ahead of things, it's super helpful. So my bandwidth, it's split and I don't have a lot of extra for sure. So what I've done personally is I've put the days up and sort of I work on one business for X amount of hours on this specific day and then that's done. And then I'll work on the next one this specific day and then that's done.

That's my current routine.

Tiffany (29:36)

That makes a lot of sense. Can you give us an example of a way that you're being proactive?

Vincent (29:41)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for instance, I really want to bring this new Hito Pak to market. The bag that we give — you cannot buy right now. You can only give it. But the new one I want to bring is one that you can buy because everyone wants to buy the one you can't buy for some reason. It's really weird.

But I want to bring this new one where you can buy it and we'll also give it. So getting ahead of some of the fires from a design standpoint. The prototype I currently have, I took to our last Give Event about three weeks ago in Oceanside. And I was asking some of the guys like, hey, what do you think about this? Would this be helpful for you on the streets? And so from that stance, I found that our existing bag that we give had some areas of opportunity that like we could have done had I done that before.

And so an example would be getting ahead and from a design stance of putting out some of these small fires to bring a better product to market by asking the questions. I think it is fascinating how we think we know what people want, but we don't. We really don't. That was a lesson I had to learn the hard way. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs do, but go and ask the questions. A/B test, take the time to A/B test. That's really important because you'll end up bringing a better product to market for sure.

Tiffany (31:00)

Yeah, that is so valuable. So do you have any final advice? I mean, that felt like a very poignant ending. But do you have any final advice that you would give other small business owners?

Vincent (31:12)

Sure, I would tell small business owners it's really hard to own a small business. It's difficult. Don't give up. Keep giving it a go. Pivot as you need to. Don't be afraid to take chances. And if it works, great, it works. If it doesn't work, that's okay too. Because there's gonna be something else right around the bend.

There's gonna be another idea that you're gonna have, there's gonna be another opportunity, another door that opens up. I would encourage you, like in those moments where you're really feeling down, you're really feeling like there's zero money in the bank account, like how are we gonna do any of this? Don't give up, be patient, and see what you can do to get things sorted because every day comes with new opportunities, new difficulties too, but new opportunities, and stay the course. You're made for this, man, you're made for it.

You want to create — that's part of who you are. So go out there and create.

Tiffany (32:11)

That's beautiful. Thank you so much. This has been such a pleasure to talk with you.

Vincent (32:13)

Great. Yeah, likewise. Really appreciate the time with you.

Tiffany (32:18)

Thank you to our guest for sharing their story and thank you for listening today. Keep in mind that every small business is unique and there's no such thing as one size fits all advice. So take only what you find helpful. We look forward to next time.