Main Street Makers

#9 Cassandra Outlaw: Conquering fear and building community

• Episode 9

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In this episode, seasoned entrepreneur Cassandra Outlaw shares her journey through various business ventures, including farming, real estate, and a restaurant. Cassandra discusses the importance of overcoming fear, building a supportive network, and understanding business credit. Learn valuable insights on using net-30 accounts to build credit and help establish legitimacy.

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Cassandra Outlaw (00:00)

Fear took over. I got scared even though I had did all the research and that fear was no joke — to put in so much work to actually see it on paper, your business plan and everything. And then just stop and not do it because of fear and not having that support to say, “Just do it, just try it.”

At least you can say you tried, you know?

So that's what I'm doing right now is have people get together and we're building that community so we can have that support so people can build up their business within that supportive environment and we just help each

Tiffany (00:34)

Welcome to Main Street Makers, a bi-weekly podcast that features real local small business owners who have transformed their passions into profitable businesses. Learn from fellow small business owners on how they overcome challenges, find opportunities, and create thriving operations that make our neighborhoods more vibrant, connected places to live. I'm Tiffany, and this podcast is brought to you by Nav, the business credit platform that believes every small business owner deserves the chance to succeed.

Now let's get to this week's show.

Tiffany (01:07)

Welcome to Main Street Makers. I'm here with Cassandra Outlaw, which honestly is the coolest name ever. And she has graced us with her presence to tell us her story. So we're very grateful for you for joining us today.

Cassandra Outlaw (01:26)

Well, thank you for having me today.

Tiffany (01:28)

We're just here kind of trying to learn about small business owner stories. So yeah, tell us about your business.

Cassandra Outlaw (01:38)

Well, right now I'm licensing real estate and life insurance. So I am putting together a program to put those two things together to create passive income or help people create passive income for retirement. So that's, that's the goal right now. So basically my business is real estate investing and teaching people how to use life insurance to create that passive income as well.

Tiffany (02:12)

Okay, very cool. When did you get started and how did you get started?

Cassandra Outlaw (02:16)

Well, this is not my first business. What I'm doing right now is where I ended up. I started studying real estate investing back when I was in college.

Tiffany (02:19)

Okay.

Cassandra Outlaw (02:28)

And of course college, you know, you don't know what you're doing with your life and you're trying to figure things out. So it was just something that I would study and keep up with over the years. And so I ended up becoming a social worker of all things. And that gave me some insight on what direction to go. So that really fit into real estate because the social work helped me see that by investing in real estate, I can build up the community. In the very beginning, I was just trying to find a business. And I went through things like meeting with SCORE, the economic development resources and things like that to, you know, just to learn about business. 

Eventually, fear took over. So the first idea I had was a restaurant and opportunity came up and I got scared so I didn't do it even though I had did all the research and everything but it was just me so I was like so I didn't do it and I kicked myself because it would have been a good opportunity but later on after social work because I had my kids and everything with my first child, got my master's degree in business and had decided that being a social worker was not going to get me to where I wanted to be as far as building up the community. So I went and got my master's and figured I would get on the management side and that didn't work out. So entrepreneurship has always been in me. 

Helped with the family farm. Bought the family farm and took that over so I ended up building up a 400 acre organic farm. In Michigan, Southwestern lower Michigan. Cass County. Yeah. So that was, that was the start and that was a challenge because we're dealing with trying to get financing through USDA and making sure, you know, everything is set up and within their regulations and things like that.

Cassandra Outlaw (04:44)

But I did it, had the farm for 16 years. Yeah, so eventually the family got it, well, it's still in the family, but it's just out of my name. And then once I got out, well, I was still in the farm, but I started a restaurant. I came back to it and started a restaurant and it was kind of crazy how I ended up doing it because again, I had went back into the business, the economic development resources and met this lady that owned the restaurant. She wanted to get out of the restaurant business and get into real estate. So I ended up writing her business plan for her real estate development project that she wanted. And in exchange for that, she gave me her restaurant.

Tiffany (05:35)

Wow.

Cassandra Outlaw (05:36)

Yeah. So that's how I got into it and took the restaurant, had a couple different locations, eventually ended that and then actually got in my real estate license. And then from Michigan, I moved here to Georgia. And so I kept up with the real estate and then got into insurance. And so here I am.

Tiffany (05:53)

Okay, that is so neat. So when you had that early fear, was there something that helped you overcome that in the end? Or was it just time?

Cassandra Outlaw (06:12)

Combination of both time and we talk about this a lot having a network, a support system to get over that fear to move to the next step. and actually that's part of what I'm doing with the real estate and insurance right now is I have a networking event where you know people get together and we're building that community so we can have that support so people can, you know, build up their business within that supportive environment and we just help each other. Cause I know that's one of them, that was a big thing. That fear was no joke. It was like, Ooh, that's a brilliant idea. And to put in so much work to actually see it on paper, your business plan and everything. And then just stop and not do it because of fear and not having, you know, that support to say, just do it, just try it.

At least you can say you tried, you know?

Tiffany (07:03)

Yes, that's great. What did you do in the early days to start building up that network?

Cassandra Outlaw (07:10)

I really didn't at that point. When it came to the farm, that was just a whole different type of beast. I grew up on the farm, so I had an idea of what goes on. Organics, that was, you know, a whole process, but having that network, was basically family. My father grew up on a farm.

Tiffany (07:11)

Yeah.

Cassandra Outlaw (07:35)

You know, and he had already started doing organic farming. So when I came in, it was just expanded. And that's what I did. So.

Tiffany (07:44)

That is so cool. Yeah, we've heard from a lot of people who, their family, either their parents were entrepreneurs and so they sort of just learned about the business that way or yeah, that network is super important and your family is sort of your ingrained network, which is nice. That's, yeah, that's very cool. So then what were some surprises about launching really any of the businesses, but you can talk about your insurance one if you want. What were some surprises that you ran into?

Cassandra Outlaw (08:22)

Surprises… I don't know about surprises because everything is a process so once you learn Or understand what that process is and you just follow the steps you'll get to where you want to go So that for me there was no real surprises it was just like get it done.

Tiffany (08:29)

Mm-hmm. Right. Because you had done your research.

Cassandra Outlaw (08:48)

And like with real estate and insurance, you just study the course, take the exam, now you're licensed. And then you figure it out because it's all different. It's not what you studied. So yeah, with real estate, my first year, I actually did very well, not financially, but learning the process and getting some closings and I did some things that people that were already in real estate didn't do.

So I came out, there was a challenge, for example, they had a challenge to see who can get the most listings. So me, like, okay, we got to think about this. How can I get the most listings? So I went out and I don't even remember the process. I just know I talked to the owner of the property. And I ended up with nine listings. So it was subdivided land that he had and he had tried to sell it before and couldn't sell it. 

So for some reason, blessed, I got the listings and actually sold half of those properties within like six months. So it was like, wow. They, whoever else did it before, land usually sat on the market in that area for like three years. But when I came in and did whatever, had my blessings on me, was, you know, it took a shorter amount of time to knock it out. So I learned a lot from that because even though it was the same owner, each transaction was different. So I learned a lot from that. Yeah, challenges, mean, yeah, they come up, you just deal with them.

Tiffany (10:15)

Wow. When did you realize you needed to kinda get organized on the administrative side? Because I think a lot of small business owners struggle with, you know, finances, accounting, bookkeeping, all that stuff.

Cassandra Outlaw (10:57)

Yeah, that's the biggest part because it's like you're filling all the roles. You have to do everything to keep up with everything. And that's the biggest challenge. So that right now is kind of a struggle for me. And then trying to find the right person to help with that. Because I do have an assistant right now that I'm training to help pick up some of those pieces. 

But I still have to manage that piece. So that kind of throws off the focus of building the business, making the money, because I have to do the admin to set up the, you know, whatever financial things, your taxes, which I'm dealing with today. And, you know, just keeping everything organized.

Tiffany (11:44)

Right.

Cassandra Outlaw (11:49)

And then there's so many different options as far as trying to organize and then you have to figure out which one to use. And you try one, it's not working, gotta figure out something else. So yeah. And then with AI, it's like, okay, help me. But then you go down a rabbit hole.

Tiffany (12:07)

Yeah, do you use, do you find AI useful?

Cassandra Outlaw (12:11)

I do, I do. It helps, it cuts the time down on some things. But like I said, you can go down a rabbit hole because now you're using AI and then you're not thinking. And so you have to make sure that you're the one thinking and just have AI organize it.

Tiffany (12:26)

Right. Yes, yeah definitely, because it can be inaccurate.

Cassandra Outlaw (12:38)

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

Tiffany (12:41)

Yeah, how do you find it useful? What's the most useful way that you use AI?

Cassandra Outlaw (12:46)

With my ideas, just to see if I'm missing something. And it'd give me suggestions and I'd look at it and be like, okay, well could, yeah, I could use that, you know, things like that. So just filling in the gaps or the blanks to help me through the process.

Tiffany (13:05)

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Acting as a thought partner in some ways.

Cassandra Outlaw (13:11)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, just checking, checking through things, making sure I'm not missing anything.

Tiffany (13:17)

Yeah. And so talk about your business credit journey. when did you learn about business credit? Cause I think you are pretty knowledgeable about business credit, right?

Cassandra Outlaw (13:27)

I don't know where I first learned that, but I really got into it probably three years ago.

Maybe four years ago, where I actually focused on it because I found a software that helped me with the process. Yeah, so I used that And that helped me get started building my personal credit as well as building my business credit.

Tiffany (13:41)

Very cool.

Cassandra Outlaw (13:50)

At one point with the farm, I initially wanted to set it up as an LLC when I took it over so that I could build business credit and use that versus the USDA loans. So in my mind, you know, you start off with those government loans and then move into your own. After you build up your credit, your personal credit and your business credit, then you can just move away from that. Because those were pretty easy to get, government loans were pretty easy too.

Tiffany (14:21)

Okay, very cool. And do you remember when you were first comfortable using your business credit? Or using business credit in general.

Cassandra Outlaw (14:29)

Well, as soon as I figured it out. It was like, “Get net 30s and build from there.” So I started there and I just started buying stuff because at that point I think I was working in insurance. I had a W-2 in insurance because I was going back and forth.

Tiffany (14:34)

Yeah.

Cassandra Outlaw (14:53)

Between the W-2 and then the business, trying to get the business going and working at W-2, it was a whole big mess. So I ended up going back to the W-2 just to make sure I had steady income coming in. So I used my income from that to build up my personal and then start getting net-30s and just started buying stuff like paper towels, toilet paper, things like that, just to get those trade lines. And so that's how I started.

Tiffany (14:58)

Mm-hmm. Do you remember which net-30s you used in the beginning?

Cassandra Outlaw (15:24)

Quill. The typical ones.

Tiffany (15:27)

Uline people use a lot.

Cassandra Outlaw (15:29)

I looked at Uline, but I didn't need anything from them. So it was pretty much Quill.

Tiffany (15:32)

Yeah. I think even some of the hardware stores have them, but you probably wouldn't have needed those.

Cassandra Outlaw (15:40)

Yeah, because I actually had gotten credit through Amazon early on and did not have a clue how I got it because they gave me like a credit line of a thousand dollars and I was like, this is cool. But at that point, I wasn't buying anything. So it was like, OK, I have this dollar credit line. And so it just kind of I just let it go.

Tiffany (15:45)

Oh, okay.

Cassandra Outlaw (16:05)

And now that I know about business credit, I was like, dog gun it.

Tiffany (16:08)

Yeah, can you maybe because some people don't know they don't really understand the whole trade line thing so can you kind of like walk through that process and what it's like for you? The process, the Net 30s… like getting them and using them and how it works.

Cassandra Outlaw (16:31)

I know, Nav provide that information, like which ones are available. So just going to the website, applying for it, and if you get it, you get it, if you don't, you don't. I'm sure, I'm sure. I can't remember.

Tiffany (16:43)

Yeah, were you ever rejected? Okay, you don't remember. Yeah.

Cassandra Outlaw (16:50)

I've been tracking because I fell off completely. And these last three months, I was able to build my business credit back up quick.

Tiffany (16:52)

Okay.

Cassandra Outlaw (17:00)

BeHalf was a good one. And they had a net-90 back then. So they don't exist now for whatever reason. just, was like trying to get back into all this and found that they're gone. But kind of like Nav, you use a particular card to buy wherever, and then it works through there and builds up your business credit. So I think it was kind of set up like that because BeHalf, you could just set up like an Amazon account and some other accounts and just buy through them and use BeHalf, and then they report to your business credit.

Tiffany (17:24)

Right. Okay, understood, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of why we created the card through Nav, because you know, a lot of these places, like you said, you have to buy bulk paper towels I mean, it's just like, if you don't need to spend that money, then it would be nice to not have to spend that money.

Cassandra Outlaw (17:51)

Mm-hmm.

Right, and that was the good thing about Quill is because I would probably spend like a hundred and $115 a month or try to at least because the supplies were so, I had so much stuff that it would last longer, but you need at least that three months in a row to get that reporting. Yeah, so there's Newegg.

Tiffany (18:12)

Mm-hmm.

Cassandra Outlaw (18:23)

And then Quill. Amsterdam, I don't know if they report anymore,

Yep, just go into those websites and applying and see if you can get it. That's the only thing and then they say to do three to five different accounts. And if you can afford it, I mean, 75 dollars to 100 dollars an account just to build that up, And the key part is have your cash to pay for it all. you know, just starting off as a new business owner.

Tiffany (18:49)

Yeah.

Cassandra Outlaw (18:53)

You have to have a source of income, You're just building your business credit up. And that's the initial thing, setting up that foundation so when you do apply, like your office address, phone number, website, email, professional email, you have to have all that set up first. Then get your net 30s and then bill from there.

Tiffany (19:13)

Yeah.

Cassandra Outlaw (19:18)

Unless you have a high personal credit score, then you can just jump into the bigger business funding.

Tiffany (19:24)

Right, yeah. But yeah, some business funders, most of them, they check business credit too, so it's sort of hard. Yeah, that's definitely something that a lot of people struggle with, and so it's good that you're, I think even being educated about net 30s is an amazing step, right?

Cassandra Outlaw (19:42)

Yeah, that's the starting point. Even if you work in your W-2 like I was and just paying for those little things, you know, because it's not, mean, $75, at least get it reporting so that you have the established business credit profile, you know, because I had, I had all of these and I did not use them all. 

Cassandra Outlaw (20:10)

There were like, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight accounts that I actually got.

Tiffany (20:16)

How quickly did you notice that it sort of built up your business credit?

Cassandra Outlaw (20:22)

Well this time it took the two months, but before I wasn't really paying attention to it ⁓ But they say the first you know it takes three months or 30 days for it to report and You want to be consistent with it every month? So just keep building and seventy five dollars a month per account You know because you have to have a certain number of accounts open for it to really matter And I think that limit is three.

Tiffany (20:26)

Okay. All right. That's really good advice. So switching gears here, when did you reach the point where you felt like a real business? Because some people even struggle to call themselves small business owners. And so was there a point for you where it was like, this feels real. This feels legitimate.

Cassandra Outlaw (20:54)

Well, definitely with the farm, because right now I'm building something else. So I don't feel 100% like a business, even though I've been doing pieces of what I'm trying to do. But with the farm, when I finally got that loan, then it was like, OK, we are in business to get things done.

Tiffany (21:45)

Yeah, and that was the USDA loan? Yeah, yep. Yeah, it makes sense. I think a lot of people feel like, OK, other people outside of us are willing to fund this, so it's legitimate. Yeah, that's great. Well, do you have any final words of wisdom that you would give to other small business owners?

Cassandra Outlaw (21:48)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Well, basically just, you know, have that foundation to have access to credit or to capital to help fund the business. Because that software that I have is helping me build my framework of what I'm trying to do. So it's having that foundation. So you're setting yourself up as a business where it's business name, LLC or whatever the entity structure is and having that business address, phone number, all the basics in place. 

Then make sure you build up the next level, the net thirties and do as many as you can within budget and you cannot mess those up because it'll mess up your score and even just delete everything because that's what happened with me. When I stopped, it deleted everything. So then I had to redo, but I had the profile. I just had to start adding trade lines again. 

So just keep working at it. Start small and just build it up. And because that helps too when you're trying to start something because you got to deal with that too. You have to test your ideas, make sure everything is working and get proof of concept.

So build credit, personal and business at the same time. And just have that foundation so that you can start making cashflow, that you can invest into real estate to help with your taxes, which I missed the boat on that one. so, but using that money to, you know, invest in cash flowing assets, that's going to create that passive income for retirement. 

Cassandra Outlaw (24:03)

So that's the goal that I want when I talk to business owners to get that understanding and help them through that process so that they don't have to work forever.

Tiffany (24:15)

Yes, yeah, that's great advice. All right, well thank you so much for joining us. I learned some stuff. I think it was super helpful. It's gonna be helpful for the listeners for sure.

Cassandra Outlaw (24:23)

Thank you. You're welcome and thank you for having me.

Tiffany (24:28)

Yeah, thank you so much.